Lukrietz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:19 pm
Klomonx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:19 am
idk man if you think only romantic relationships can save someone you're limiting yourself and your understanding so much. Platonic relationships can also save you. Your relationship with yourself can save you.
Im so tired of romance stories having this thread of saving, and I know this puts me at odds with everyone. I understand that like, mainstream LGBT+ stories need to be told and often they're going to have this thread but I can ALSO feel hurt and generally dislike them because of their romantic content. I hate it.
I hate the romantic end all be all. I hate that its so accepted to kick your friends out of your life for a partner. I hate that seeing shit as platonic is seen as homophobic like fam we're LGBT TOO! Why cant these two interpretations exist? Why can't I dislike something? Even in stories where I can see and enjoy a platonic savior theres almost always a romance there somewhere that fucks it up for me (LOTR comes to mind first). Sometimes I wonder if Utena were better if Anthy and Wakaba were the same character. Like, we dont see Utena and Anthy act as friends very much do we? Like it's all so implied and I always kinda hated that. We have a few scenes but nothing like Wakaba's.
Exhausted by the fact I can't say I don't want to Ship or maybe I don't want these characters to be romantic, subtext people see aside, because for me I am seeing this piece of entertainment as validation for what I am. And sorry, I don't really...see the argument when people say 'theres tons of media with friends only' can I have some examples? I bet you they're either Shitty or again have a Romance Thread OR the general consensus is that the two platonic partners in the piece are in fact romantically involved and to say anything else is Bad. Why can't I say 'I see these characters as platonic' exist? Why is it so demonized? Why does every fandom have to be Ships. I like a few ships, I enjoy some even! (I enjoy playing fucking life sim games where the focus is on DATING! I like Dating Sims!) But I hate when that's the focus I hate that shit has to "evolve" into romance.
I know its like 'lol they were "close friends"' is a joke made by us to say how real LGBT peoples' lives are made out to be straight only but like fam. What if they are? What if they are platonic? And I hate more when ace/aro folks defend things like this we get called homophobic. Of course its bad to straighten out relationships. But like, we don't Know do we and it's not great to assign shit to dead people. Why do we have to fight why can't it exist why do other LGBT+ people act like we're the devil and/or act like we're fucking children. god fucking shit fuck you know?
Like, im not saying dating games or romance options (like BG3) are bad! Im not even asking for platonic options! Have sex in youre games and media. I just wish out Cultural Perception wasn't so romance as the final destination + I wish fandom spaces, where we all Like The Same Thing were more open to and accepting of Platonic HCs. And none of ur valid + ignore bs i still want to discuss things from my POV dont just ignore me.
My audience- who im talking to - also shapes what I talk about. I feel really awkward and out if place talking about Raiden in MGS groups because I Am Not Normal, even by their standards. I also just find it so personal to talk about, its very much a vulnerable part of me that hurts when people make fun of or belittle it. I know its weird, so I try to not talk about it. I also don't feel super welcome in ace/aro spaces because many take things more seriously than I do and dobt even like joke ships or casual conversations about such + many come off as puritan even though I know that isn't their meaning. We have a hard time expressing what we'd like to see without being written off as puritans or homophobic or childish.
WATCHING MOVIES AND READING AND PARTICIPATING IN FANDOM SPACES IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN CAN WE JUST. STOP THE BICKERING ITS REALLY HARSHING MY MOOD.
I can understand both camps. I hope I don't come off as too annoying when I ship characters - as someone who's bi I can say that shipping characters sometimes can be nice because, well, there still isn't great representation out there, and I'm all for people having headcanons whether it be trans, bi, ace, what have you. Because at the end of the day it isn't a big deal. Sucks when people fucking... start shipping wars or whatever tho.
People just have to try and listen to each other, because as you said we're part of the same community at the end of the day. We're same but different, and that's OK!
I think what fucks me up with like... romance in a lot of media, and in real life, between hetero couples is that... a lot of the time it just kinda seems like the two entered an agreement that they'll be together/get married, but they don't have much in common? It's just kinda an agreement to not be alone? This is just my perception and I'm not judging if that IS the case, but, to me, it's just kind of bewildering because I'd want to have some common ground with an SO? To me it's like, you marry a friend, maybe a best friend, with the added benefits that marriage gives and also you smooch and maybe have sex etc. Not just some schmuck who's "good enough" so you won't be alone. Again, I don't judge if that is the case but it seems to be such a common thing especially in hetero couples that I'm just like??? And ofc there's tons of reasons why people might do this, people have different life situations etc.
IDK maybe I'm not making sense.
I think relationships between people can be very complex also. Not to mention that the time we live in and our language shapes these things. Like, I've read that male monks in the past would have relationships with one another that basically boils down to what we would call homosexuality, but back then they didn't use that word like we do - they might not even have used it at all, I forget what word they used exactly. It was a Humon comic I read where she talked about this LOL. Where a modern person talked with a monk from that era, and the modern person tried to imply that the monk was gay, but whatever word they used was something blasphemous to the monk. But for all intents and purposes, it seems that monks back then were in romantic relationships with each other. Speaking of, it wasn't that long ago that like... bisexual/homosexual/hermaphrodite/transsexual basically meant the same thing - I've been reading about it in a Swedish book that deals with the "hermaphrodite's history" (I know it's a bad word but it's what's used) and it's pretty interesting how this was a thing 100 years ago, prolly less than 100 years ago in fact. Like mid 1900's perhaps. I gotta read more of the book...
NOT ME GOING OFF ON A TANGENT
But yeah like, I understand
Yeah, nothing you've done has upset me, I think im just upset on the whole? Like. Good Omens came out and I saw a lot of ace/aro folks enjoy it and see themselves in it....only for S2 to really go oh haha its Romantic
. And it just hurts, I guess. Similarly when Barbie came out there was a lot of talk about Barbie being paired with the adult human woman; of course, I see the value in this but I'm also like...why must we? Why can't we just let Barbie be single?
Yeah like, I really don't understand a lot of people's relationships in general. People don't seem happy and it confuses me...its just like the norm I guess. I always assumed my partner would be my best friend and I really wouldn't settle for less? Nowadays despite the fact I am Very Afraid of being alone, I'm willing myself to accept I will be because my brain just isn't wired to seek out romantic partnerships. It isn't an option for me, my brain doesn't work that way.
Some Aro people have tried to embrace being not human because they don't feel love...and like I understand it a lot. When you get told over and over that shits just normal and you aren't experiencing it...you must Not Be Human. I already feel a lot of inhumanity in my gender, might as well add to it.
I think in English its similar, but of course, trans/homo/etc were also paired with pedophilia, id even say they were used as synonyms in English by the public at-large, and still often are
I always thought of raspberries and strawberries as being closely related but I might be wrong about that.
